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In 1812 Pierre DuPont de Nemours published a book called "Education in the United States". Dupont, one of the founders of the DuPont fortune, who was known to be brutally honest and direct, spoke of the phenomenal literacy rate in the United States; he was amazed by the difference he saw when compared to European literacy. In 1812, forty years before the passage of our first federal compulsory school laws. Dupont said that less then 4 people out of every thousand in the new nation could not read and do numbers well. He saw our world as a world which nearly every child was trained in argumentation (critical thinking). How could this be possible without compulsory schooling?
Almost 20 years later deTocqueville wrote "Democracy in America" he characterized the U.S. Citizens as the best-educated people in history. In 1838, 14 years before the United States Militia began enforcing public schooling at the end of a rifle, another French aristocrat, Michael Chevalier wrote that the American farmer ranked with the immortals in history. The book said in effect that the farmer went into the field with his plow in one hand and Descartes in the other. The American Public school system was not installed because the U.S. citizens were uneducated; one can assume all kinds of reasons why compulsory education was enforced in the U.S. You could start by reading The Origins of Compulsory Education - by John Gatto (John Gatto's book Dumbing Us Down and his Six and Seven Lessons is perhaps that which began to confirm home-schooling my children was the best option for them and therefore achieved almost hero status ). These facts helped dispel the false notion that no one could educate my children better then an organized educational system. The first day I brought my oldest child to school was a day of both pride and sadness, as time continued public school became frustrating and at times the opposition to the goals I had set for my children. Those goals were to reach their full potential, be happy, creative and independent individuals. I found that my oldest son had dyslexia, spatial issues and long/short term memory problems, yet when tested he showed above average intelligence and an almost insatiable desire to learn. He was the child of 20 questions 24/7. Yet at the same time he was kind, patient, and helpful. His early grade teachers were amazed at his cooperative and kind attitude both towards the teacher as well as the student. He continued through school, battling a system that was not set up for any child that deviated from the rote learner, studying at times for more then 4 hours a night from 1st grade on. This was not a lazy, uncooperative child. This is the child who at 9 begged for a small paper-route and once acquired continued to pick up small routes that other kids had quit until by the time he reached 5th grade had the largest foot route in the city of Beverly, Ma. At the end of 5th grade we moved to Maine. 6th grade was far different then 5th. The changing of classrooms every 40-min., not having his own desk, the lack of personal knowledge of his learning style all became a daily battle. A child who has memory issues and disorganization problems having to pick up his papers and move from room to room creates a battle of unbelievable proportions even with the support of his educators. I spent hours and hours trying to encourage, coerce and in the end even threatened to attempt to get such minute support as "reminding him to place his paper in his red folder". Although many teachers tried to accommodate his needs, they were simply overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of children needing similar help. I saw my child go from the wonderful person I described above to a child who began to stoop, showed a defeatist outlook, lost his desire to learn, his natural curiosity, and one teacher told me this wonderful caring and considerate child had an "attitude problem". My second son was far different than my first, he was the embodiment of the Tasmanian Devil, that dervish whirlwind. Jumping from his crib by the 3rd month, climbing to the top of the refrigerator within moments by the age of 1. By 3 this is the child who could grasp complex abstract principles, he amazed me, exhausted me, and at times absolutely frustrated me. Upon entering him into the kindergarten I realized that this would be more then just a little struggle. Please understand that he was as kindhearted as could be, respectful, honest and gentle with others. His problem became labeled "attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder" I did not want my child to go the prescribe route of medicating to control, so I worked closely with the school to modify his education to attempt to suite it to him. It was especially frustrating to see him fail in areas I knew he should be successful in (he tested in the brilliance range) after 2 very frustrating years, I finally acquiesced and placed my son on ritilian. He then became capable of the educational success that I knew he had the ability to achieve, but it became difficult to balance his medication and several times a year it would have to be increased. By the time he reached 5th grade his intake of medication had increased to a point that frightened me. I saw that when at home and in public he had acquired no coping skills and when he was not medicated he could not sit still and could not keep quiet. Going to a public restaurant, Movie Theater, even the doctor's office was exhausting and humiliating for both of us. Then one day as I expressed my frustration to the school nurse, she leaned over and whispered to me..."have you ever considered home-schooling him?" my eyes wide I looked at her. She nodded and left the room. This began my journey into the world of home schooling. By the time I had decided to home school my children I had discovered that several teachers, as well as admin's in my school district and neighboring distracts home schooled their children. In my tiny community with an elementary school population of 54 over a dozen children were home schooled (middle and high school is regionalized). Now, let me be clear, this is not a bad school district it actually ranks well and has little to no violence. I suspect that I received much more support then most parents as throughout my children's "time served" I held the position of PTA president, cultural events coordinator, served on the district special education committee in Mass., And wrote the school district parent handbook for children of special needs and the IEP process. I pulled my children out of the school system, this was not a choice that my family widely supported, perhaps the most often repeated negative point was that of "what about socialization" I refer you back to John Gatto's six lessons for my response. My primary goals were to wean my youngest son off his medication and find alternative learning situations for him, for my eldest son I wanted to help him recoup his natural curiosity, his desire to learn. I did what I believe to be very controversial (I feared that I might even be arrested or my children removed if this were discovered), I "unschooled" my children. I taught them nothing; I neither offered nor enforced even a single educational activity or reading material. My children at first found this to be great! After several months I noticed my son who had been on medication for most of his life going off into the woods by himself and sitting quietly watching nature, or I would find him in his room in the middle of the night, the house quiet, him not noticing my peaking as he was absorbed by a book. Finally after about 9 months I came home from the grocery store to hear my eldest son ask if I could "buy him a math book or something" ...he wanted...to learn...I had to walk into the other room so he did not see me cry. I could go on and on about the other positive effects that home schooling has had on my family, though I am divorced and my husband not involved in our family, my children and I communicate well, we have a respect for one another, my children have friends of all ages from 96 to the young children they mentor. They are responsible and responsive, respected and respectful by both adults and their peers. I feel I have dodged the teenage rebellion and I believe much of this is because we spend our time together, my children's daily life is integrated with that of the entire community not only their peers. We know and relate to each other in a manner that families who's children spend most of their lives being raised by strangers in public schools can never achieve. As my children have grown and I have watched the difference in the attitudes and abilities of home schooled children in our community compared to normal children who attend school I cannot be anything but amazed at the difference in maturity levels, ability to communicate and an obvious superiority in critical thinking. Colleges and nation wide studies are reinforcing the advantages children have who are home schooled. I suggest that everyone, not just those who are parents look into the world of home schooling and start to question what public schooling is doing to our children and our nation.
I agree that home schooling is an excellent option for a lot of kids whose needs can't be met by overwhelmed public shcool systems. Home schooling allows for flexible class times and a lot of opportunities that public schools can't provide.
On the other hand, public schools have taught me a lot that I wouldn't have learned at home. I'm the product of a bi-racial marriage (I'm Chinese, English, Scottish and Native American) and as such...well, I don't look much like anything familiar to most people...they can't tell what I am, but they know that I'm different (which is all the justification you need to pick on people, it seems). I took a lot of teasing in my elementary school years, which wasn't very cool, but it taught me a lot about coping with ignorant people and I learned to be proud of my many heritages. I learned to stick up for myself and I learned quickly how to deal with bigotry in a constructive manner. I don't think I would have developed this in a home schooled environment. In short, growing up with those assholes has made me the person I am today. Most of those assholes turned into nice people, too. After spending 12 years in the same school system, they learned that despite teh fact that my skin is dark, I'm a nice, funny person. I think that their exposure to me and people like me has more firmly imprinted the message "all people are equal" than any lecture their parents could have given them or any instructional videos could have taught. Home schooling definitely has its perks, but it seems like unless its done properly, it could result in children being too sheltered.
i don't want to take away from your rather good story, & i have to agree that schools aren't the best place to learn. however as simple has said, being immersed among a whole lot of your peers, be they arseholes or angels, is rather good for you.
also, did you deliberately misspell ALL bar one, occurrence of than - as then - to see which one of us was going to be the first arsehole to point it out? or did your spell checker just fuck up big time?
Those Gatto articles were awesome.
I love this: Quote: Good people wait for a teacher to tell them what to do. This is the most important lesson of all, that we must wait for other people, better trained than ourselves, to make the meanings of our lives. After reading through the pages you link, I now realize just how awful a student I was. Man, am I proud.
I would have loved to be home schooled. But not by my parents.
It'd be great if my dad was really really smart, and my mom was smart and a great teacher. But my dad is a machinest and my mom dropped out of junior high. Home schooling would be good for me if I needed to know how to mill an engine part or what's going on lately in Days of Our Lives. I think your boys are lucky. But I'm glad the public school system is there.
"(I'm Chinese, English, Scottish and Native American)"
I can't believe the garbage I hear everywhere I go about this kind of crap. You are NOT Chinese, you are NOT English, you are NOT Scottish, and you are NOT a Native! You sir (or ma'am), are an American. If you were born here, no matter what your heritage is, you are an American. It's this sort of idiocy about cultural identity which creates and encourages division and racism.
My public school kids would con your kids out of their allowance, pressure them into smoking a cig, and then steal their coat.
Well, not really...Please dont read this as negative, I just hope that your kids do not have to deal with their first dose of the real world as 20 year old children. Especially when joining the workplace, it can be a mean, harsh, fast paced experience - just like public school. I am sure you have been a wonderful parent, and have loving children, and that is a great start. But I wonder if you may have cheated them out of their ability to form a social self confidence and survival instinct.
The absolute number one objection I have received to home schooling has been the socialization objection. This is the biggest myth perpetuated about home schooling. Study after study shows that in fact just the opposite is true.
Research studies by Cornell University found that "children who spend more elective time with their peers than with their parents become peer-dependent, thereby diminishing their self-worth, optimism, respect for parents and trust in peers, all of which are crucial to sound mental health and positive socialization. The child that feels needed and depended upon at home will usually be the social leader because he is more likely to be self-directed and independent." Smedley, of Radford University, used Vineland Adaptive Behavior Scales to evaluate the communication skills, socialization, and daily living skills of demographically matched public-schooled and home-educated students. Smedley's data revealed that "...the home-educated children in this sample were significantly better socialized and more mature than those in public school. The immediate implication is that home school families are providing adequately for socialization needs." A copy of Smedley's study can be found here: http://members.aol.com/tomsmed ley/smedleys.htm Dr. John Wesley Taylor study showed that 50% of home schoolers scored in upper 10% on Piers-Harris Children's Self-Concept Scale, only 10% were below the 50-percentile level. "Insofar as self-concept is a reflector of socialization... the findings of this study would suggest that few home schooling children be socially deprived." Dr. Gary Knowles studied more than 1,000 Michigan adults who had been homeschooled. None were unemployed or on welfare (compared to 5.6% and 11.2%, respectively for the average population). A full 94% said that homeschool helped prepare them to be independent persons, and 79% said that it helped them to interact with those from other levels of society. The Fraser institutes study "Home Schooling: From the Extreme to the Mainstream" Showed that not only were home schooled students more academically advanced, they were also more socially advanced then both public and private school. A summary: students.http://www.nationalpo st.com/home/story.html?f=/stor ies/20011015/736855.html The actual study: http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/ publications/pps/51/homeschool .pdf (I could go on and on with studies,but I'm a bit too longwinded already) At grade 1-4 children are on the average of one grade ahead of their public schooled peers, by the time they are in 8th grade they are on the average 4 grades ahead of their public schooled peers. They are integrated with society, not limited to a synthetic same age peer group. They interact with both young and old and grasp a sense of true society at a much younger age then public schooled children. what do schools really do? They separate kids by age and ability, reinforce class, gender and racial prejudice and take away from children the right to any real interaction. School children are forced to socialize with children only their own age and are trapped in a room 6-7 hours a day allowed to only view the outside world through a text book. Where in the real world are adults forced to socialize with only someone their own age? Large numbers of same age peers can adversely influence a child's growing sense of values. Violence, ruthless competition, bullying, massive consumerism, cruel teasing and unrealistic body concepts are often the social values that are learned on a school playground and in it's hallways. Homeschooled children are more likely to base their decisions on values they learned from their parents and community, instead of feeling compelled to go along with the crowd and accept the behavior of what other children are displaying as the "norm". My children have actively participated in long term business plans, securing financing for their goals, aided the elderly in our community, advocate for their selves on a day to day basis among numerous other activities. This is where you derive real social skills, not in a group surrounded by your same age peers measuring your worth by who has the coolest shoelaces. Mat- People tend to conjure up an image of a mother instructing her kids around the kitchen table, this is a bit of a myth. While instruction around the kitchen table does indeed occur in most home schooling families, the flexibility and range of home schooling encourages an enormous variety of alternative educational models. These models range from child-led, interest-based learning (unschooling) to the traditional, classroom model with professional teachers. They include distance learning, cooperative-teaching arrangements between parents, commercial learning centers, and subject specific tutors. Many young teenagers routinely take junior college or university courses. Others participate in the revival of apprenticing. A recent government study showed that although there are significant difference in the mean performance between home schooled children of parents with college degrees and those without (and I quote) "It is worthy to note that, at every grade level, the mean performance of home school students whose parents do not have a college degree is much higher than the mean performance of students in public schools. Their percentiles are mostly in the 65th to 69th percentile range." I don't advocate that all parents should or can home school, I do advocate that we take a very close look at what makes home schooling so overwhelmingly successful compared to the compulsory education system.
yeah, that's a good point. I must admit that my opinion is based on the home schooling that I saw when I was growing up. All the H_S kids I know where taught by their mother from around the table.
But the point about my parents being deficient in areas still stands. Even if they did know to go out and get tutors(or anything else), my dad could never afford it on a machinist's wage. I'd dream about going to a specialized school, that taught at my pace, and taught things I wanted to learn(in addition to things I had to learn). I had to compensate for it after I graduated.
I admire your courage an determination JMM&I. My wife was schooled in a one room schoolhouse in Aroostook County (about the closest thing to home schooling that I can think of) and we try to apply a combination of that and public schooling with our boys. Wish I had more time. (I suppose I'm wasting some of it here).
i guess the only problem i have with this is the lack of quantifiability (is that a word?)... like, who grades you? who checks the tests? who writes comments and disciplines the kid if he or she is lazy? what about team sports? what about clubs and afterschool activities? when it's time to go to college or grad school how do you show anything to the school for admission... "yeah, sure i know trigonometry and russian history, my ma taught me real good!"
what about writing for the school paper? drama club? small-time radio broadcasting? machine shop? wood shop? etc etc... many of which i participated in. and where exactly do homeschooled kids meet their friends? are they from the schools these kids left behind? or do they meet them at the supermarket... or what? and is home schooling something you advocate for the entire length of the child's educational life? they never go to a school? you know... i went to all-boys private schools from 1st grade through 4th grade and when i moved and went to a new school that was co-ed in 5th grade i was very excited to be around girls, cause i always liked 'em but i was also totally unprepared to deal with them cause i had been denied the chance to interact normally with them by my previous environment. it took me a few years to normalize and be able to interact maturely with girls. finally... i wonder what the stats are on public vs private vs homeschooled. i went to private schools until my sophmore year of highschool and there is no doubt in my mind that i got a very good education at private school, one that was better than many of my peers in highschool had gotten and one that immediately placed me in advanced placement and college prep courses when i did go to public high school. i have many fond memories of school when i was younger and i'm not sure i would have rather been home schooled. after all... there's still many hours of non-school time for a student plus all summer to learn many things that they don't teach you in school. a very interesting article though... it prompted me to think and to write all of this! 
hey I am taking the side of chitlicks on this one. I would not care what stats indicate that kids grow up with just as much social ability as those in a real school. the things that I enjoyed in school such as drama would be taken away. I mean coule not imagine my accountant father teaching me drama and helping with the production of a neil simon play!! LOL the ol' man would not have it!
but in all honesty it was a great post. the only other issue I would be concerned with is the fact that one of your children already suffers from "attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder". I am not sure what this condition is all about but is it better that he fights this without being around other children?
I think the main problem with public schools is what goes on after school when the kids come home. There are a lot of parents that don't, or claim they don't, have the time to spend with their kids. I think it is extremely important for at least one parent to be there to talk to, and to help explain things to. The learning shouldn't stop at 3PM.
My mother was always home for my brothers and I, she would stop working until we were old/mature enough to be left alone. We've turned out fine (I think) but some of my friends haven't. Some of them were always in trouble, hooked on drugs, getting arrested, etc. The one thing that they all have in common is the fact that they were always home alone. Either their parents were working late, too tired, or just didn't care. These guys just did whatever they wanted to without any guidence or supervision. JmmI, I applaud you for having the patience and sense to do that. Not many people are able to pull that off. I only hope that you taught them a little "street" smarts to go along with the "book" smarts, Chitvicious hit on some key things there.
I wrote this about my schooling after JMM&I made this post, but I decided that it would be a fitting comment to throw out there
I am a child of almost ever single type of Schooling one could imagine except for the kind that Me,Myself,andI speaks of. I spent until 2nd grade in a small rural town at a small rural school of about 100 students. After that my mom and I moved to a large city and I was put in a private Christian school from grade 2 to grade 5. From there I was ferreted away to our cities International Studies magnet school which lied right in the middle of the ghetto and had 500 students, over half of whom did not speak english, and almost none of whom were white... Yippe welcome to the three year hell that was my middle school experience. After that I was thankfully accepted at The Gateway Institute of Technology, another magnet school that has a somewhat fanatical dedication to excellence. And where am I now you ask? I am now a bona-fide sixteen year old teenage dropout. I went through so much schooling that I almost totally and completely broke down. I had been driven to the edge by a school system that is outdated, overcrowded, poorly maintained, and most definitely not catering to the needs of an individual such as myself. See I had been slogging through all the other school and shit because I was naive enough to think that Highschool was the light at the end of the tunnel, no, highschool was just the straw that broke my feeble academic back. I ended up in a school of 3500 people that wanted nothing to do with me. Teachers did not teach. Students did not learn. At best i would say that it was a low security prison, presumably only there as a holding pen. It drove me insane. My talent was squandered, my life was slowly draining away and after years of stress induced overeating I was grossly overweight. I had reached my limit, my mind was torn between what everyone else said was right and what I knew I had to do so that I could survive. I started to lay out of school. The system never came for me. No social worker, no phone call, not even a meeting to find out why this once almost straight a student was now sleeping thru all his classes and drawing pictures when he wasn't sleeping. just a small letter informing me that I had been dropped from the enrollment How odd, a sixteen year old allowed to run amuck and ruin his life. It was all because my mom believed in me. She knew that something was very wrong. She knew that I wasbeing killed by the system in place. She actively, despite what everyone in our family and friends and acquaintances said let me drop out of school. It cuased her great stress and a lot of anguish to let it happen but she did. I did not become a child of homeschooling, oh no, my mom had a fulltime job to work at to make us money. I had to set about the task of increasing my knowledge by myself. Honestly I will say that there are probably a very many things that I have not nor ever will learn in great detail. I will most likely never have a great love for math, in any other form that geometry which I use as an artist. i will not in the immediate future, have a small document saying that I am indeen not an idiot. I will probably never learn all that I should about a lot of things. But that is not the point. The point is that now I was free to persue what I wanted to learn. I could read nothing but books on art if I wanted. Hey I love war and history, shit I have checked out every book on world war2 that my branch of the library has at least three times. I am a vast melting pot of knowledge on various subjects. I am fairly up to date on current events. And I love to learn, but I have found that I do not need homework, or a school, or teachers, or little fucks asking for answers to questions to learn. All I need is my mind, my determination and something to learn about. I would really love to say that this has been the end of my formal education, I really would. But it probably isn't. Unless some of my projects take off I will most likely have to get a G.E.D. and get into an art college. But thats not to say that I am hoping thats the case. I have a long term comic book I'm working on with my best friend, a webcomic that my friends Scott, Jim, and I are launching next year (we have about 14 months of scripts and about 25 layouts done but i need a new computer before the real work begins.), A series of scripts I'm working on, A novel I'm helping my mom write, An Ebay business I'm trying to start, and soon I hope to start taking local art commisions. See, It's not that I'm not smart, or that I lack motivation. It just so happens that I have ideas and thoughts that can wait no longer. I however, with my projects and ambitions and incredible determination to become a succesful creator, am in the vast minority. I have friends I know who have dropped out and become shells of people. Likewise I have several friends who have commited suicide largely because of matters that deal with school. And I have friends who are simply going through school to please their overbearing parents, friends whos true talents are being squandered and wasted as they are forced to "choose" a major. My friend Jim is a Phenom of a writer, he writes liquid fucking Gold I tell you, and he is being wasted. He even knows it, theres nothing that he can do about it, ... but he knows it. I just wanted to let you know that there are those of us out there who really do not belong in the school system... at least not this one. I could probably go on and on about this subject for literally days, and I am quite long winded, but I just wanted to submit a different view of the whole "school" thing.... Take from it what you will... I don't even know if this has a point.
Bob-I can't tell you how sad and frustrating it is when I hear kids talk about how defeated they are by the "system". I think it's important to keep one thing in mind, the most important thing a person can learn in their life is: The knowledge of how and the desire to learn. There are options to the GED and your life experience can be used towards a diploma. I'd be glad to touch base with you on this, if you would like, just email me.
Jr- I think you touched on an important issue,home schooling is typically one on one. Public schools have classes with 25 to 30 students and an extremely wide range of abilities and backgrounds. Home school parents have made a concsious decision to be heavily involved in their children's education; the same, unfortunately (as you pointed out), is not true of all public or private school parents. Dink-In the United States, at every grade level, home schooled students' average score placed between the 82nd and the 92nd percentile in reading and reached the 85th percentile in math. Overall, test scores for home schoolers placed between the 75th and 85th percentiles. In contrast, public school students scored at the 50th percentile, while private school students' scores ranged from the 65th to the 75th percentile. Home schooled students also surpass the national averages of public and private schools on both of the major college-entrance tests: the ACT and the SAT. College admissions including those of such notable colleges as Stanford and Harvard show a 25% percent rate of admissions compared to a 12% of public and private admissions. We maintain portfolios of our childrens work and a list of their accomplishments (books read, papers written, contests entered, awards won) to submit as part of the application. As many as two-thirds of American colleges will accept transcripts drafted by parents. There are also education companies that will test students in subjects and provide transcripts based on their performance. A lot of us also enroll our kids in college summer courses and then submit their grades as proof that they can handle college-level work. Letters of recommendation can be obtained from employers, mentors, volunteer coordinators, or outside educators. A study released in 1997 tracked students from public schools, private schools, and home schoolers over four years of college. In academics, home schoolers ranked first in 10 of 12 indicators. Other studies have overwhelmingly shown home schoolers to have above-average grade-point averages. The majority of home schooled children participate in a wide variety of extracurricular activities, including afternoon and weekend programs with public school students, day-time field trips and co-operative programs with groups of other home schooled kids. Ninety-eight percent of home schooled students are involved in two or more outside functions on a weekly basis. Public schools are by law required to allow homeschoolers to enroll in day classes as well as extra curricular activities. As far as accountability, it varies from state to state, the state of Maine requires a note of intent, portofolios and daily logs, we must follow the state curriculum, although we are allowed to access our own materials and develop our own "lessons plans" we are required to cover the areas outlined in the state curriculim, We are required to maintain a relationship with an accredited teacher who must sign off at the end of the school year stating that we are in compliance with state statutes and are covering all areas of the curriculum. I think it's important to note that parents who homeschool have had to fight hard for the right to homeschool, it was not so long ago one could be arrested for this...I would say across the board the parents I know who H_S realize the importance of personal responsibility and accountability in maintaining these rights we've worked so hard for. As for relating to females, Dink, it's a bit entertaining to watch the evolution of my sons' romances. There is a group of 6 or 7 teenage boys here that are homeschooled, they interact on a regular basis with boys of the same age who are public schooled. Several thing are very apparent when you meet these boys, the home schooled boys are far more mature in behavior, have the ability to speak with adults on an adult level, are respectful and speak in a manner that I would expect to speak with a business associate or another respected adult. The public school boys, although polite, seem to have a difficult time conversing in the same manner. Interesting enough the homeschooled boys appear to be extremely favored by the females in town. This group of boys date the girls who are known to be the most popular and vibrant. (they've even arranged on several occasions to hold dances at the town hall) I can't say that is true of all homeschooled kids,I have yet to see a study on this, perhaps my boys and their homeschooled friends just have naturally irresistable personalities (wonder where they got that from ) Smitty-By law children who are homeschooled have the right to enroll in day classes as well as all extra-curricular activities. My children have been involved in Drama, sports activities and band. They've gone on school field trips as well as independant fieldtrips with other home school families. Attention deficit disorder w/ hyperactivity (ADHD) is a a blanket label, in my sons instance it was as if he had no filters, he was bombarded with everything going on around him. Colors, voices, noises etc. basicly he suffered from constant information overload. He is extremely sociable,has a very high energy level, is an incredible networker and very sure of himself when dealing with other people, whether it be a same age peer, parent, or professional. School is not a natural situation, it does not resemble the "real world" work force or "real world" social situations. When you realize that, most of the concerns or objections are pretty easily disproved. As adults we have the choice to choose our professions and environments, why do we expect children to function in an environment that goes against their personna? an environment that he would not choose as an adult? When you realize that, most of the concerns or objections are pretty easily disproved. I don't think I can repeat enough that homeschooled children interact in the world in a much more normal manner then those children locked up in a building with same age peers. If I want my children during the period of their lives that they are most influenced by their peers to assimilate certain traits and behaviors, who is it better for them to associate with? Children of the same age and limited world experience? or mentoring with succesful and positive role models in the community on a day to day basis? Give that serious thought and then honestly tell me who has the advantage in the adult professional world.
iamacancer: I've noticed a lot of Americans confuse "then" and than". I think it could be to do with the way they say the letter "a" in the word than. A lot of American accents say such an a as in the word "care".
I could be talking shit, but it reminds me of an American teacher who said one of her students got really pissed off with her for calling him a girl's name. He thought she was calling him Erin...hehe Matt: I think the point would be though that if your relatives hadn't been publicly educated, then your parents would be able to homeschool you. The government has created a system of dependence. chit: Who is to say her kids are naive? Especially if they're dealing with adults in their daily lives. I'm sure they've learnt, or been told, a thing or two. Matt: Of course, finance is often the problem. Maybe if the government didn't steal/extort and then waste in the form of taxation (yes, it's institutionalised extortion), your parents would be able to afford a lot more things, including either staying home or hiring someone else to teach. Editor: There are large homeschool networks, and I don't think every parent is an expert in every field. The children either investigate these things themselves, or different parents teach different things. So, you might be good at history, and someone else might be good at chemistry, etc. It's the same with teachers in a normal school. They don't teach every single subject. JMMI: Well written and well argued. I've been a convert to this whole thing for around a year (maybe more) now. I never intend to put my kids through the public system. Especially since I've seen it from the inside (I just finished an education coruse). shorbe
Bob: All is not lost. My father attempted year 10 twice and failed. He dropped out to become an apprentice motor mechanic and went through something like thirteen different jobs in radically different industries.
He's also self-educated and has an incredible knowledge on a range of topics. He inspired learning in his children. Perhaps of greatest solace to you would be that he is also a multi-millionaire now and has lived out many of his dreams. He always says he's lived three lifetimes. You can do it too if you believe in yourself :) shorbe
i'm sorry but i still don't buy it as the be all and end all answer for everyone.
you quoted stats. but how many kids are homeschooled? if 1 or 2% of US students are homeschooled it's not really fair to even compare them to the group at large and use percentages... it's just not accurate at all. you can't put a test group of a few thousand against another group of many tens of millions and expect to learn much. and what about this Quote: College admissions including those of such notable colleges as Stanford and Harvard show a 25% percent rate of admissions compared to a 12% of public and private admissions. huh? 12% private? i am positive that 95% of my prep school class went on to good colleges, many of them Ivy League. and what are the downsides? there's no way this is all roses, how many h_s kids were like your's... unable to handle "real" school because of learning or behavioral difficulties? this article is bugging me a little because it is so glowingly in favor of h_s. but i'm sure there are lots of problems too; you just want to downplay those so you seem to be in the right. my fiance went to Cambridge Rindge and Latin High School... a school with almost 5,000 students, great sports and a world-famous drama program. now i am not trying to insult you but there is NO WAY you are going to convince me that your home-schooling methods can duplicate that kind of experience... being with 5,000 of your peers every day... learning to deal and survive in that environment is a very important part of success as an adult... ditto times two for a large college or university... plus, there is literally no way to duplicate things like... science buildings, gyms, track and field courses, huge libraries etc... all the benefits of going to a centralized school. there's no way you can duplicate an advanced college level biology class or computer science or physics lab at home. also... i simply don't buy your assesment of "the most popular boys and girls". maybe by some miracle your kids are well received in their community but my intuition tells me that h-s kids are gonna get ragged on a lot by the regular school kids. kids always ostracize those who are different... surely that was one of the problems they had at real school? in addition you contradict yourself when you claim on the one hand that it's bad for a bunch of kids to be "locked-up with their peers all the time" and then you say that your kids interact "regularly" with school-going kids. so which is it? regularly to me would be 8 to 3:30, 5 days a week. not once or twice a week. and how do you know that those kids are representative of what all the kids think. maybe your boys are friends with the class losers and you just don't want to believe that. of course they seem like they are better adjusted than the loser kids. my instinct tells me that on average h-s kids would be shunned by their peers... hell, i would have shunned them and called them nancy boys if they acted all mature. it's all well and good that YOU like how your kids speak to adults and that YOU think they are mature and confident but to me they sound annoying if i was another 14 year old with little respect for authority (which is totally normal for a 14 year old boy) also, you seem to forget that for normal, school-going kids there are many hours after school, weekends and all summer for home-schooling. i learned a hell of alot from my dad and my mom in off hours... and during the summer I went to camps and took sailing lessons and tennis lessons and swimming lessons and got to go canoeing and learn sharpshooting and pottery etc etc etc. in the meantime i didn't hate school. i got reasonably good grades and learned a lot. and if i hadn't have gone to school i would have never been taught by Mr DeCamp, a man who loved history so much he would jump up onto his desk often and yell. finally, how do you have time for all this? do you have a job? what are working parents supposed to do? it just doesn't seem feasible for everyone the way things stand right now. honestly, i'm glad that this is working for you but i am totally not sold on it yet. i don't think your article or your opinion takes into account both sides of the story. i'm sure the school system in Beverly left something to be desired and i understand your reasons, but i don't see that it's right for everyone. and even if it was... what would happen to all the schools and teachers? (this article is a think attack of the highest order btw... even though i disagree somewhat, good job)
ahhh. dink tells it like it is. & bob, don't feel too bad old son, the only big thing you are missing from school is that piece of paper saying you're not an idiot. so long as you are comfortable with who you are, & are capable of doing your own research on what you want to know, you could do a heck of a lot worse in life.
I know almost nothing about homeschooling, so I'm not qualified to have an opinion about that. However, I can tell you from firsthand experience that public schools suck nasty cock. I would agree with Matt that I'm glad they're there, but they suck. It's hard even for me to fathom the amount of pain that publics schools have inflicted on my mentally, emotionally, and even physically. I'm not sure that homeschooling is the solution, but public schools are definitely a problem.
I would tend to agree that public schools are character-building. I am constantly picked on and bullied and if I wasn't, I doubt I would possess most of the qualities I value in myself (sympathy for the downtrodden, sensitivity to emotions of other, caustic wit, ability to adroitly evade blows and run really fast).
JMMI, sounds like your doing a fine job.
H-S isn't for everyone, but neither is public or private school. I have a couple of H-Sed nephews, they are pretty sharpe kids. One built his own computer with a freinds help, both have ham radio licenses. The younger one (16) is learning greek, seems silly to me, but someone from their church/H-S group can teach it so whatever. Their peer group is mostly kids from their church and other H-S kids. They played little league baseball, local soccer etc. They aren't growing up in a vacum. It's good that you got your son away from that ADS lable and associated drug program. It seems public school is the school of last resort.
Secret: The whole character building argument is a bit spurious I think.
I went to a private school that was like a formalised Lord of the Flies scenario a lot of the time, especially when it came to school sport and military cadets. I got a lot of flack because I refused to tow the line. For me, it was character building. For others, I am not so sure. Maybe I was just strong. It really fucked with others though, and rather than building their characters, it destroyed them. kreech: You'd be surprised how beneficial it can be to learn a language such as Greek. The majority of the words in the English language are derived from Greek or Latin (often through French). Learning such languages can often help with understanding English so much better. I studied French for six years, and although I will probably never use it (so I could read signs in Montreal...big deal), it gave me a much better understanding and love of English. Editor: I agree with you that there are drawbacks to homeschooling, and to tell you the truth, I probably wouldn't want JMM&I teaching my kids English, but that's beside the point. You're right that there are some phenomenal schools out there. I think they are few and far between though. One of the biggest reasons people homeschool I think is because of the specialised attention to the learning styles and interests of the students. That simply doesn't happen in a 45 minute lesson with thirty students and one teacher on a set topic, which is the case in most public schools. In a lot of ways, homeschooling is better than other forms of schooling, and probably vice versa also. I think rather than even get into a debate about which system is better, the pertinent point is that each system is different and offers different approaches and emphases. There must be literally thousands of different systems within the US, let alone the whole world, and each offers an alternative. I think it's important for parents to be deeply intersted in the development of their children whether it is teaching manners or mathematics. Thus, each parent should think about what he or she would want for his or her children, and then compare that to the educational aims of any particular system. I'm also interested to know how JMM&I manages to support her family and teach them. Being libertarian, I'm opposed to government interference in private lives, including taxation. I think the cost of living is higher than ever before for a lot of people (although this is also largely due to the proliferation of unnecessary consumeristic crap in most lives), and taxation and the inefficient allocation of taxation is a real and unnecessary burden upon ordinary people who are better capable of running their own lives (and this includes education) than any bureaucrat or politician. shorbe
Homeschoolers as of 1998 consisted of approximately 2% of the population. H_S has grown at a rate of around 40% a year since 1998. I think that is a phenomenal growth rate. Why do you think Home schooling is enjoying such rapid growth?
"how many h_s kids were like your's... unable to handle "real" school because of learning or behavioral difficulties?" My son did not display behavioral difficulties, at no time were they violent or disrespectful. The "attitude" his tenured teacher mentioned referred to a lack of interest, desire to learn and general apathy. Surprisingly the amt. of children homeschooled because of learning disabilities is small, infact it is the lowest denominator for decisions to H_S, the largest being a simple desire for a better education for their children. The college admissions %'s I qouted refer to the total amount of students accepted from it's applicants. Out of the total H_S applicants to Stanford 24% were accepted. Out of the total private and public schooled applicants to stanford 12.7% were accepted. Other colleges reflected similar rates of acceptance. (I hope that makes a bit more sense)
thanks for clearing up the percentages thing... i get it now.
it seems like it all comes down to two things... individual attention and learning what one is interested in. it's clear that the public school system leaves a lot to be desired.
Yes! We need to look at the positive influences homeschooling incorporates and incorporate those in other forms schooling. Many possible changes were mentioned by John Gatto http://www.choiceineducation.c o.uk/gatto/gatto14.html take the time to read his article Dink, it's very interesting.
The point here, is a great flexibility in education for children, cutting out what is not beneficial and adding that which is. Tailoring to the needs of a child and not to the needs of the massive machine of educational institutions. Including parents and communities as the CENTRAL portion of educating our children, not as an afterthought.
Shorbe-
The majority of homeschooling families are 2 parent with one parent working, middleclass and educated. As a single parent I am extremely lucky to be able to work out of my home and to have made a series of land deals that enabled me to be financially independant and debt free. This area is aprox. 3 yrs beind Mass. in clothing fashion. Timing my visits with family in Mass. to coincide with Filene's, L&T's etc. end of season sales makes it easy to keep my children fashionably clothed at low cost (Luv that 70 to 80 % off). We live simply yet creatively, produce a lot of our own goods and avoid credit like the plague. I don't believe the average single parent could stay at home and school their children. I'm sure that this rather small community recognizes the enormity of what I've taken on with 4 children (I have 2 younger daughters)and this accounts for much of the support I have recieved.(offers of tutoring and mentoring by succesful artists, authors and business owners, as well as several retired teachers. Unseen li'l gnomes plowing my drive in the middle of the night etc.) I'm no matyr, if I lived near such an obviously succesful private school as perhaps the Hyde school (which insists on heavy parental involvement) or Waynefleet in Portland (also insists on heavy parental involvement) I may have chose a different route. I'm glad I didn't. Homeschooling, though labor intensive, has proven to be an extemely positive move for my family. Dink- I wanted to point out that along with their great personalities one contributing factor in the popularity of my children and several of their home schooled peers may be that they are all 6'+, weightlift together on a regular basis and are uh rather nicely shaped.
I am the keeper of the cheese.
sorry I couldn't participate in the discussion. It sounds like it was a pretty good bit of posting going back and forth, but, i had to go out and do a lot of stuff this weekend. JM,M&I, I would like to touch base with you to, but I can't seem to find an adress to send email too for you anywhere on the website. Other than that I also believe that we all have a bunch of very good points. However I would like to state for the record that I do not necesarily feel beaten down by "The system" au contraire (sp?) I feel perfectly fine now that I am far away from the damned system. I have a passion for today, and tommorow, that I never experienced while I was in the school system... That and coincedentally since I dropped out of school I have lost almost 100 pounds. Oh, and to the people who said that Public school does build character. I agree with you to a point. That point is the difference between people who have very strong thick skins who get used to the shit and also conversely grow better from it. And those who become completely beaten by the constant suffering and commit suicide or murder. I was one who could handle the shit. In fact I was hardly ever picked on and generally everybody pretty much was cool with me. However I had a friend ( a close acquaintance if you will) who sat squarely in the latter category. all it took was a single trigger which just happened to be her Brother dying, and she hung herself from a rafter in her closet. So I have to say that no, in some cases it does not build character. I dunno, maybe something like this has been said (I havent read all the posts yet.) but I am just speaking from my experiences. However this seems increasingly more common.
JMMI: I like the idea that it is a community effort and a sharing of resources and abilities. In a way, it's almost a true socialism.
I intend to homeschool my own children because I think it is important to take an active role. I'm perhaps fortunate in that I have a fairly well rounded education, as well as general knowledge. I think I could certainly teach my students anything and everything almost (with perhaps the exception of language, since my French isn't that good) up until the beginning of what would be high school in the US. I would then rely upon others. I plan to work from home in the future anyway, so I think it should be possible. Of course, I'm also in the enviable position that my family is fairly wealthy so it wouldn't be a financial burden upon me. Homeschooling is something I think about and each day, I move further from traditional models. shorbe
Bob-e-mail addresses can be located by clicking on the persons name at the top of their posts or comments.
Shorbe-Thank you for your supporting comments. I think you will find that you are far from alone in your plan and that with the ever increasing ability to work out of your home so will the numbers of homeschooled children increase.
Yes, I know that. It takes you to the staff page and directly to your name. and it has the little bar at the end that has contact information. However for yours where it has the connect thing and then a mailto link. and yours just happens to be totally blank, everyone else either has one or doesn't, but yours seems to be totally blank.
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